Integrative Medicine and Musicals w/ Dr. Joanna Drowos

Episode Information

March 28, 2022

Family Medicine Physician Dr. Joanna Drowos talks about her passion for prevention, the mind-body connection, her introduction to medicine at an early age, challenges in the doctor-patient relationship, her love for Broadway musicals, and more.

Topics Include:

• Why she chose osteopathic medicine
• The importance of the mind-body connection
• Growing up in Toronto and her initial exposure to medicine
• Her move to the United States
• New things on the horizon in her field
• General nutrition tips
• Why Doctorpedia appeals to her
• Challenges she faced in dealing with her patients
• Her various hobbies and her love for theater
• What she does to stay healthy

Highlights

• “Modern medicine is amazing and all of these interventions are here, but you wanna choose what’s right for the patient. And part of that is people’s preference, what they feel sort of comfortable with, and working with them to figure out the best mix of everything.”
• “My dad’s baby sister is an MD. She’s a reproductive endocrinologist. And I remember my brother and I went and stayed with her [in San Francisco], and I remember she was trying to help [her patients] to become pregnant. And I thought [it was] the coolest thing, that she was having such an impact on people’s lives… It was really motivating and inspiring. And I looked at her and thought, ‘I wanna do something like that as well.’”
• “[Medicine] is the best career in the world. I tell my students all the time, it’s truly a privilege to take care of people.”
• “I always want [my patients] to feel that I’m present with them at the visit, that they have my full attention, that we don’t have to rush, that we can sort of talk through their total health, whatever concerns they have, and I want them to know that sometimes I don’t have the answers.”
• “There has to be a therapeutic relationship [between a doctor and a patient.] We have to connect and feel comfortable with each other. And if we don’t, that’s okay. There’s probably someone out there that’s right for you.”
• “[For] being able to direct your patients to accurate sources of information, I think [Doctorpedia can be] really helpful. If you’re saying the same thing over and over to patients all day long, just having your sort of own curated message that you can share with your patients. I think that’s really important and helpful.”
• “I love theater. When I’m not practicing medicine, I produce musicals on Broadway.”
• “I exercise. I’m a big believer that you have to be active. So I ride my Peloton. During the pandemic, we put a gym in our house, so I have a gym where I can do all my workouts and my yoga, everything in there.”

Episode Transcript

Daniel Lobell: (00:00)
This podcast or any written material derived from its transcripts represents the opinions of the medical professional being interviewed. The content here is for informational purposes only, and should not be taken as medical advice. Since every person is unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any personal or specific needs.

Daniel Lobell: (00:18)
Hello, and welcome to the Doctorpedia podcast. I am your host, Daniel Lobell, and today I am joined on the line and honored to be joined on the line by Dr. Joanna Drowos. How are you?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (00:30)
I’m great. Thanks so much for having me.

Daniel Lobell: (00:33)
My pleasure. It’s exciting to have you on the show. What’s cool to me is I think you may be one of three professors that we’ve had on the show at this point, who teach medicine as well, is that correct? You teach in Florida, correct?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (00:49)
Yes. I am an associate professor of family medicine at the Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine at Florida Atlantic University, which is in Boca Raton, Florida.

Daniel Lobell: (00:59)
What made you decide to get into teaching medicine as well as doing it?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (01:05)
So I love practicing and taking care of patients, but I love the fact that in academics, every day is a little bit different. And I love working with medical students. They remind me about why I’m so enthusiastic for medicine. They love taking care of patients. They keep me on my toes. They’re always asking challenging questions. And it’s just a lot of fun to help them learn to, see them make connections and get excited about becoming physicians.

Daniel Lobell: (01:36)
Were there things when you were in medical school that you wished you had gotten from your professors that you’re like, “You know what, when I’m a professor, I’m gonna bring this to the class.” And if so, what?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (01:49)
I mean, I loved medical school. I felt like the physicians that I worked with, for the most part, were really supportive and inspiring. There were a few who would try to kind of trip you up and ask you tough questions. And I guess I kind of looked at it and wanted to be that teacher who made students feel like it was okay to get a question wrong and use it as a learning experience and to not be afraid to guess or try. So I guess I like to be that teacher that they feel safe and comfortable, and that they can propose things and learn with me.

Daniel Lobell: (02:29)
Sure. Makes sense. Makes sense. So I read that you do preventative medicine and that you’re very into health and, well, obviously all doctors are into health, but you’re very into nutrition, spirituality, and mind-body connection. What made you decide to go this route with medicine? And by the way, I love that and I commend you for it. And I think it’s — to me, it speaks the loudest out of the different fields of medicine. If I were to become a doctor, I would want to go into preventative medicine, I think, because I’d want to stop the problem from ever happening before it did. But other than my very simplified explanation, what were your motivations?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (03:16)
So when I was choosing a medical school, I actually chose to go to an osteopathic medical school, because there’s these tenets of osteopathy, which are sort of like the hallmark of our profession. And it’s that body, mind, spirit are all connected, and just sort of like taking a holistic approach to patient care. And I also do osteopathic manipulation in my practice, which is something that I’m really passionate about.

Daniel Lobell: (03:41)
I should stop you right there because I don’t know what osteopathic means. Can you define it for me and for the listeners?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (03:48)
Yeah, sure. So there’s actually sort of parallel systems of physician training in the US, so a person can graduate from medical school and either become an MD, a medical doctor, or a DO, which is a doctor of osteopathic medicine, which is what I chose to become. And essentially we learn all of the same information, like the pharmacology, the surgery, the pathophysiology, it’s all the same, but the difference is that osteopathic physicians have like a slightly different philosophy in terms of like the connection, mind, body, spirit, and the body having a tendency toward health. Like those are sort of tenets of our philosophy, things that we believe. And so I went to an osteopathic medical school by choice, and osteopathic manipulation is actually like using your hands to correct what we call somatic dysfunction or things that go wrong in the body, to help a person to heal. So it’s just another tool that I use in my approach to patients. So I can prescribe them medication. I can do all the regular things that a physician does, but I do that as well.

Daniel Lobell: (04:58)
So when you say using your hands, you’re not literally talking about the patient doing movements with their hands, are you? Or…

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (05:06)
No, I’m using my hands. So when people think of manipulation, I think a lot of times they think of chiropractic manipulation, and some of the techniques that we use are a little bit similar, but there’s other techniques that chiropractors use, and other techniques that osteopathic physicians use. So we’re a little bit different in how we approach patients and how we treat them. But that’s kind of like how you can think about it in your mind, if you’ve ever been to a chiropractor, it’s in the same vein, it’s like a manual technique where I’m using my hands and I’m kind of moving the patient around to help them heal.

Daniel Lobell: (05:45)
Is it like PT?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (05:46)
PT is totally different. Like sometimes they use manual techniques, but they also use modalities and all of these other things. So my passion is really what we call integrative medicine. So I have board certifications in family medicine and preventive medicine, and I use OMP to help heal my patients. So the idea is that you bring the best of all of the modalities when there’s good evidence that they’re helpful for patients.

Daniel Lobell: (06:17)
Mhm.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (06:17)
So if a patient has, let’s say, a problem with their blood pressure, you could use a medication, you could use a lifestyle intervention. You could do all of these different things. Meditation, yoga, mindfulness, all of these things to sort of like help them improve their health overall, and breathwork, anything to sort of like them to be more healthy.

Daniel Lobell: (06:39)
That’s pretty fascinating stuff. And I just love the natural approach to things. I love the body being able to do the work rather than bringing in chemicals, if not necessary.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (06:50)
Yeah. And listen, modern medicine is amazing and all of these interventions are here, but you wanna choose what’s right for the patient. And part of that is people’s preference, what they feel sort of comfortable with, and working with them to figure out the best mix of everything. And sometimes it is medication, sometimes it’s surgery, those are the things that we need to get our patients better, but we should have a really open mind for where there’s good evidence that interventions are helpful.

Daniel Lobell: (07:21)
Speaking of the mind, I read that one of your methods emphasizes mind-body connections. So can you describe to the listeners what does that mean and how is it practically applied?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (07:34)
So I think this idea of mind-body medicine is sort of like using techniques that relate to mental health and how patients are feeling. So for example, I was talking about a patient having high blood pressure, patients will note that their blood pressure gets elevated anytime that they’re stressed out. So what about using meditation or biofeedback or relaxation or breathwork as a strategy for handling stress? Sometimes — listen, some people have high blood pressure and it’s cardiovascular and they need medications, but there’s other things that you can sort of work on and try, getting adequate sleep, lowering salt in your diet, all of these different things together to just try to help your patient to have the best outcome possible.

Daniel Lobell: (08:25)
What do you recommend to people with regards to sleep?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (08:29)
I mean, sleep hygiene is huge. All the strategies, limiting your screen time before bed, and cutting off fluids at a certain hour so that you’re not waking up if you need to go to the bathroom. Sleeping in a dark room without noise or stimulation, allowing yourself enough time to fall asleep, going through a relaxation phase before you go to sleep. I mean, these are all strategies — same time in bed every night, waking up the same time every morning, these are all strategies to maximize your sleep. I also look for things, make sure my patients don’t have sleep apnea, things that can impact the quality of their sleep. And, just have it be part of our conversation as a tool toward their overall health.

Daniel Lobell: (09:16)
I for one have sleep apnea and sleep with a mask every night. I don’t know if that’s still the best way, I’ve heard — every now and then someone says, “Oh, you should get a surgery,” or a thing that makes your tongue go numb, I don’t know. Is there… Where are you on all that?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (09:32)
Yeah, so I mean, the important thing is to treat sleep apnea, because when we don’t, you end up with, it’s harder to control your blood pressure and there’s a linkage to different kinds of heart disease. So it is really important to treat sleep apnea. I mean, you don’t wanna be exhausted all day. But it depends on the cause of your sleep apnea. The approach should be individualized for each patient in terms of what’s causing it. Sometimes for people, it’s having extra weight, and so taking off a little extra weight can be really helpful. Sometimes it’s more of a central problem. So the approach really depends on the patient and the right strategy for them.

Daniel Lobell: (10:13)
I usually start these interviews by asking the doctors about their childhood and how they grew up and what made them wanna go into medicine. Somehow I didn’t do that today and I feel bad because I’d like to. I think it’s just very interesting to me what you do, so I was eager to jump right into it, but can we backtrack a little bit? Where did you grow up, and what did your parents do?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (10:37)
So I grew up in Toronto, Canada, and my mom is actually an occupational therapist, and she did home care and used to take me on visits to visit her patients whenever I was out of school.

Daniel Lobell: (10:49)
Same here. My mom’s also an occupational therapist and would also take me on home care visits. How about that?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (10:54)
Oh, seriously? That’s really interesting. And my dad is actually an attorney, and what sort of motivated me toward medicine and science, my dad’s baby sister is an MD. She’s a reproductive endocrinologist. And I remember she did her training out in San Francisco, and my brother and I, I was probably 12 years old and we went and stayed with her, and I remember patients calling her and sharing like very private information, she was trying to help them to become pregnant. And it was just like, I thought the coolest thing, that she was having such an impact on people’s lives. And watching her, she’s really amazing in everything that she knows and what she’s done with her career. And it was like really motivating and inspiring. And I kind of looked at her and thought, “I wanna do something like that as well.”

Daniel Lobell: (11:48)
And I’m sure that also going with your mom on those home care visits probably inspired you quite a bit as well.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (11:55)
Oh yeah. It was amazing to watch her be so thoughtful in terms of, how do you help people to be safer and function better at home to be able to take care of themselves? And that’s part of medicine now, it’s such a team sport. We need our nurses and PTs and OTs, our social workers, the whole team kind of works together and you see each person in their skillset and what they bring to the team. And that’s part of the fun of it.

Daniel Lobell: (12:23)
Absolutely. I think OTs are the unsung heroes of society. You hear a lot about PTs, but OTs never get the spotlight.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (12:33)
I think it’s a little bit less common. And I think more people have probably seen a physical therapist than an occupational therapist.

Daniel Lobell: (12:42)
Sure. But what they do is incredible. My mom also worked in the school system and helped so many kids with sensory issues and all kinds of things. So anyway, going back, so your dad’s an attorney, your mom is an OT. And, did you say it was your aunt who was, the other one who was in medicine?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (13:05)
Yeah, my dad’s younger sister, she’s a reproductive endocrinologist.

Daniel Lobell: (13:11)
Okay. And do you have brothers and sisters, or did you grow up an only child?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (13:17)
I have an older brother. He’s always been in sort of like more business, marketing. He currently works in real estate and I guess I was the one that was drawn to science.

Daniel Lobell: (13:28)
Mhm. So at what age did you feel “All right, that’s it, I know what I want to do. I’m going into medicine.”

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (13:35)
Probably when I stopped wanting to be a princess. [Daniel chuckles] I mean, I was pretty young when I decided that that was…

Daniel Lobell: (13:41)
That’s pretty early. Or, you wanted to be a princess for way too long.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (13:47)
That could also be. [Daniel chuckles] No, I always looked up to my aunt and my mom, what she did, and I was curious about it. So I think, around the time that you start thinking about what you wanna be when you grow up, I was interested in becoming a doctor.

Daniel Lobell: (14:03)
See, that’s fairly common thread in the doctors I’ve interviewed on this show. It’s like a calling, really, more than a decision.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (14:11)
Definitely.

Daniel Lobell: (14:13)
So what made you move from Canada to the US and wind up in Florida?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (14:20)
So I was in high school and my parents, I think, felt like there’d be more opportunities for us in the US. And we kind of made the decision as a family, like when I was in high school, that we were going to move here, and started looking at businesses. And my parents moved, I did my last two years of high school in Florida. I went to Stoneman Douglas High School, which unfortunately now many people are familiar with. And then I went to university.

Daniel Lobell: (14:53)
I’m guessing something pretty bad happened there.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (14:55)
Yeah. They had a pretty terrible tragedy a couple years back.

Daniel Lobell: (15:02)
Mhm. I vaguely remember, but it’s hard, unfortunately there’s so many now, so.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (15:07)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s very sad. But my family came down and I went to University of Miami, and they have a great pre-med advisory program, and when I met with them, the pre-med advisor had said to me, “You should look at osteopathic medical schools.” Because I knew that I wanted to do primary care. And she felt like that would be a really great fit for me. And so once I looked into that, I knew that that was what I wanted.

Daniel Lobell: (15:37)
So how did you like the move? Becoming a… You’re an immigrant family basically.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (15:43)
We are.

Daniel Lobell: (15:43)
[Daniel chuckles] Was it hard for you to pick up and leave all your friends out there?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (15:52)
Yeah. I definitely missed my friends a lot. I think being a 16 year old is like a hard time to move. But we made the best of it. When I first came to Florida, I thought I had landed on the moon, cause Toronto is just very, very different, but…

Daniel Lobell: (16:09)
Really? See, I would’ve guessed that it’s not such a big culture shock coming from Canada, but I guess that just shows my ignorance of Canada. I’m kinda curious, what was so different about it?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (16:22)
I mean, I just grew up in sort of an insular community. Like most people grew up there and still live there. And all the people that I grew up with now, all their kids are friends. It’s just a different sort of environment where here, people sort of like move in, move out, move around a lot. And, I don’t know. It’s just, I think, like a bit of a faster pace here. I don’t know.

Daniel Lobell: (16:49)
Mhm. Yeah. I think it’s that British influence on Canada where things move a little bit slower. And I don’t know if there’s — was there tea time in Toronto?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (17:00)
No, we didn’t have tea time.

Daniel Lobell: (17:01)
No tee time? See, I just came back from the UK. My mom is from Scotland. So, I mean, I think tea time changes everything. Having that tea time, and probably it has a lot to do with, to some extent, what you work in, because it’s a relaxation in the middle of the day. I think it slows everything down. It’s good for the body. It’s good for the mind, I would think.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (17:26)
Yeah, no, I think it’s a healthy thing.

Daniel Lobell: (17:31)
In Spain they have siesta… I think because it’s so fast paced here, I think that it lends itself to a lot of the medical problems that we have.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (17:40)
Definitely. And the difference in terms of people in other places taking vacation and giving themselves more opportunity to relax. We’re not always so great at that here.

Daniel Lobell: (17:53)
No. It’s a “go, go, go” culture. And, I don’t know, it sometimes doesn’t lend itself to the opportunity to take vacations very often. So going back. You come here, it’s a bit of a culture shock, but you still stay on the track of medicine, which is what you wanted to do, go through medical school. At what point do you start teaching, yourself?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (18:20)
So when I came out of residency, so I did my residency training in family medicine and then preventive medicine. So I’m board certified in both. And my first job out of training was to be the medical director for our county’s communicable disease program, which I really liked. I was doing medical care for people with HIV, tuberculosis, all sorts of infectious diseases. And I liked working for the health department.

Daniel Lobell: (18:47)
What’s it like working with people like that?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (18:50)
Yeah. I mean, incredibly rewarding, to be helping a population — at least in this county, the health department at the time was doing a lot of the care for the underserved. So it was very rewarding to care for people who didn’t maybe have access in other places, and to teach them and help them to get better and prevent others around them from becoming ill. I mean, it was great work and I really enjoyed it, but it was intense. And once I had my first child, I was kind of like, “Gosh, this is really kind of high stress and lots of work.” And that time, the college of medicine had just opened very close to where I live and they were hiring faculty. And so they hired me first to be one of the first people to join the faculty. And I got to work part-time and sort of have a flexible, variable schedule. So I could have a little bit more time with my daughter. And then my son came along. And once I got into academics, I realized that that was another way to make a difference. And I just loved that. And I’ve been there ever since.

Daniel Lobell: (20:04)
That’s awesome. What does your husband do? Is he also in medicine?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (20:08)
No. He’s a financial planner. He has his own wealth management practice.

Daniel Lobell: (20:15)
Wow. Where did you meet?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (20:17)
Our parents moved in next door to each other when I was graduating college and starting medical school and he was finishing college. We met and the rest is history.

Daniel Lobell: (20:31)
Oh, fantastic. So your parents are friends as well.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (20:35)
Yeah. Our parents live like a mile from us in the same neighborhood.

Daniel Lobell: (20:38)
That’s so cool. So your in-laws are your parents’ friends.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (20:43)
Yeah.

Daniel Lobell: (20:44)
Wow. It’s almost a sitcom.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (20:48)
[Joanna chuckles] Sure.

Daniel Lobell: (20:49)
So what are some of the advances in your field of medicine that have really changed things recently? And what are some of the things on the horizon that you’re excited about?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (21:02)
Yeah, so we’re just sort of coming out of two years of pandemic medicine, which I think has been really challenging. Just the opportunity sometimes to do telehealth with patients I think is amazing, because I think it’s opened up access. Sometimes it’s hard for people, if they’re working, they don’t wanna take several hours and leave their office and come in for a visit, but they’ll jump on a virtual visit with me and and take a half an hour and we can address something. So I think the opportunity to connect with patients virtually has been amazing. And it’s something that I think is here to stay, and I like to do with my patients when it works better for them.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (21:51)
I prefer to meet them in person and be able to examine them. But sometimes for small things, between visits, it can be incredibly, incredibly helpful. So that’s been huge. And I just think what sort of came out of living through a pandemic these past couple of years, just in terms of like how rapidly science advances, vaccines, new treatments. I always talk to my patients about integrative strategies for improving their immune systems and trying to keep them as healthy as possible. And I just think it’s been a crazy two years.

Daniel Lobell: (22:32)
I want to hear some tricks to improve your immune system, if you don’t mind. Would you share some with the listeners?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (22:39)
I mean, so kind of speaking in general, there are certain nutrients, vitamins and minerals that have the property of reducing inflammation. So if you were to get a cold, there’s some data that there’s certain things that you can increase in your diet, or take a supplement for a short period of time to improve your body’s ability to like fight off an infection. So there’s just all kinds of strategies and things like that that I like to talk to my patients about.

Daniel Lobell: (23:20)
I think I understand what you’re talking about. I was hoping you’re gonna be like, “Turmeric. It’s all about turmeric.” [Both chuckle]

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (23:26)
Well, in general, I don’t tell people to take supplements, cause I’m a big believer in eating your vitamins and nutrients. Like so many of the things that your body needs, you should be getting from foods, from fruits and vegetables and a healthy diet. The exception is vitamin D, which doesn’t have a lot of great food sources, and many people will take a D supplement just cause it comes from sunlight and we sort of have a tendency to wanna avoid sunlight, for protecting our skin. So, but in general, most people should just have a well balanced diet and be okay. And then there’s data that for certain conditions and certain things, that there are supplements that can add value. But that’s a whole field of integrative medicine.

Daniel Lobell: (24:18)
Are there books that you would recommend to people to find out more on that?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (24:23)
I personally love the textbook of integrative medicine. I don’t know that the average person would find that appealing.

Daniel Lobell: (24:37)
Doesn’t sound like a light read.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (24:39)
There are great sources of information. So I practice as part of the Marcus Institute for Integrative Health at FAU. And there’s also a Marcus Institute for Integrative Health at Jefferson, in Philadelphia. And we have content on our, both of us offer free webinars and content on our website that gets into some of these topics a little bit more. So I always encourage patients to read about it and ask questions and to engage that way. So trying to find good sources, where there’s a good evidence base and where there’s there’s medical evidence and studies that kind of support the recommendations that are coming out, I think you just have to be a little bit careful, because a lot of people call themselves integrative practitioners and sometimes they’re not physicians or…

Daniel Lobell: (25:36)
They’re integrating lies instead. They’re just…

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (25:39)
[Both chuckle] I wouldn’t go that far, but the strength of the evidence is not always there.

Daniel Lobell: (25:45)
So you brought up a website, which is a good enough transition point for me to talk about Doctorpedia with you, which is the company on behalf of which we are doing this interview. What attracted you to working with Doctorpedia, and in what capacity are you working with Doctorpedia?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (26:03)
Yeah, so I’ve just kind of joined as an advisor, I’m obviously interested in the content and the idea. I think anything that we as physicians can offer to our patients that’s sort of physician curated, I think that’s really important. I’ve said several times that it’s about finding good evidence and being able to translate that into a message that patients can sort of understand how it applies to them and use that information. So to me, it was very much about, physicians should be the ones curating this information and managing it and packaging it in ways where it’s helpful and useful to patients.

Daniel Lobell: (26:48)
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s pretty much what sets Doctorpedia apart from the other websites out there that do something in the ballpark of what they’re doing, is the fact that it’s physician curated. And that you have that, basically that authenticated approach to what you’re seeing, that’s to me what’s exciting about it, is just, as somebody who’s on the patient end of things, just to be able to jump on the website and watch videos and read articles and really educate yourself. I didn’t have such a fascination with medicine before I got involved with Doctorpedia, but the more I learn, the more — I don’t think I’m ever gonna become a doctor, I think that ship has sailed, but I’ve developed such a passion for medicine and for learning about it just through the website. So.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (27:42)
Yeah. And why wouldn’t you become a physician, if that’s what you wanna do? We had, in my class, when I was in medical school, we had a mother-daughter pair going through medicine together.

Daniel Lobell: (27:53)
Well, I think because I have ADD, that’s always been the biggest reason that I’ve never pursued it, because I’d be afraid that my ADD would get in the way of treatment for a patient. Unfortunately, I don’t trust myself enough, I think.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (28:11)
Well, that’s fair.

Daniel Lobell: (28:13)
Yeah. But my heart is in it. I would love, if I didn’t have that obstacle in the way, I probably would pursue something in medicine at this point in my life.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (28:23)
It is the best career in the world. I tell my students all the time, it’s truly a privilege to take care of people.

Daniel Lobell: (28:34)
Yeah. I mean, I can’t think of any better way to spend your time than to help people. I mean, I’ve done what I can do in terms of jobs where I’ve done senior care and worked in rehabs and, just the amount of reward you have for improving the quality of someone’s life, or in some cases extending their life, is, I mean, you can’t, it’s immeasurable. It’s certainly better than when I worked as a security guard, but then again, that may also be argued that I was improving people’s lives or saving their lives. But….

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (29:12)
That is true.

Daniel Lobell: (29:13)
[Daniel laughs] It would be a tough argument, because it was concert security and we didn’t do very much. But anyway, what is the greatest compliment that a patient can give you?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (29:25)
I think the greatest compliment is telling their friends and loved ones that they should make an appointment to come and see me. That’s always incredibly flattering. And I love when someone comes in and they say, “Oh, I’m friends with this person.” And they were absolutely raving about you. Or “My sister said that I really need to come in and see you.” Like, that’s just, I think, a really nice compliment. It shows that your patients have faith in you and that they think highly enough that they wanna tell their loved ones to see you.

Daniel Lobell: (30:00)
Absolutely. What do you wish your patients knew coming in?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (30:07)
I hope they know that I care very much and… I’m fortunate. My practice is supported by a grant and I get a lot of time with my patients. And so I always want them to feel that I’m present with them at the visit, that they have my full attention, that we don’t have to rush, that we can sort of talk through their total health, whatever concerns they have, and I just, I want them to know that sometimes I don’t have the answers. Sometimes somebody will ask me a question about something that they’ve read and I’m not familiar with the topic, but I’ll tell them, “Listen, I’m gonna go and read about that and I’ll get back to you once I know more about it.” So, I just always want us to have open communication.

Daniel Lobell: (30:59)
Yeah. I think that’s great. I think that instills a lot of confidence as a patient, knowing that your doctor is willing to broaden their horizons, if they don’t know something, they’re honest enough to tell you and humble enough to tell you, and they’re interested enough in what they do, that they’re still willing to continue to educate themselves. I think that’s really a great thing, a great quality in a doctor. Speaking of which, being a patient, have you been a patient yourself and if so, what did it teach you?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (31:29)
I’m fortunate that for most of my life I’ve been pretty healthy. The one time I spent quite a bit of time in the healthcare system was when I was pregnant with my son, cause I had some preterm labor and I’d spend quite a bit of time in and out of the hospital, getting monitored… And just, I think what I remember about it was how scared I was that I might have a bad outcome and that there were things that I couldn’t control and things that I couldn’t predict and just how scary that was. And so I try to remember, I think that for physicians and patients, it’s easy to misunderstand one another and to just know sometimes that if a patient is short with me or having a bad day, to give them the space and the time to try to figure out what’s going on, if something is truly bothering them, I think sometimes it’s hard to be pleasant and to… I try to assume the best in my patients and to try to be there when things are tough.

Daniel Lobell: (32:45)
I imagine it must be very difficult if you’re trying to help somebody and they’re giving you attitude or whatever it is, to remove yourself emotionally from that situation. Is that a challenge, and what were some of the things that you’ve found helpful in navigating that?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (33:06)
I mean, it’s definitely happened to me, particularly with the pandemic. I’m a believer that, I recommend the vaccine to my patients and there’s quite a few people who, for whatever reason, in many cases it’s misinformation, they don’t wanna get the vaccine. And so I don’t think that that should be a reason why someone can’t be my patient. I mean, I hope that I can educate them on the studies that I read that, the information that I know to be true. I always want to hear from them what their concerns are, and try to educate them. But I had a patient who came in who wanted a treatment that she had heard about in the media, and every study about it says it’s potentially harmful and it’s not helpful.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (33:56)
And she asked me to prescribe it so she could have it. And I explained that to her. I said, “Listen, this is not recommended. It’s potentially harmful.” And she sort of walked out of my office and I just let her go. And I said, listen, I’m not the physician for everybody. And that’s okay. And to just not, I wasn’t going to fight with her. I wasn’t going to engage. She clearly had some ideas about what she thought was best for her. And I think it’s fine to say, listen, we’re not gonna agree on this and I don’t think I’m the right physician for you.

Daniel Lobell: (34:37)
Yeah. That’s a tough situation to be in because being undermined in terms of the knowledge that you have, but I think your approach is probably the correct one, to just be able to say, look, there are other people out there that may be able to handle this situation for that patient in a way that would work better for them. I don’t know. But I guess your line summed it up best, that not every person is every person’s physician, right?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (35:05)
That’s right. And I think that that’s part of it, is like, there has to be a therapeutic relationship. We have to connect and feel comfortable with each other. And if we don’t, that’s okay. And there’s probably someone out there that’s right for you.

Daniel Lobell: (35:23)
So shifting gears back to Doctorpedia again, what problems are there that you’ve seen that physicians face that Doctorpedia you feel could help solve?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (35:34)
I think being able to direct your patients to accurate sources of information, I think that’s really helpful, sort of having your own messages. If you’re saying the same thing over and over to patients all day long, just having your sort of own curated message that you can share with your patients. I think that’s really important and helpful. So I see it as another sort of place for information and place for connecting that we just… It will be higher quality.

Daniel Lobell: (36:11)
Absolutely. Yeah. What do you do for fun?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (36:16)
So, I…

Daniel Lobell: (36:19)
If you have any time for it. [Daniel chuckles]

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (36:21)
Yeah, I have lots of time. So I like exercise. I’m in the Peloton cult. I ride my Peloton. I love spending time with my family. I have two amazing kids. We love to travel. An amazing husband. We spent the pandemic driving around the country in an RV.

Daniel Lobell: (36:40)
Wow.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (36:40)
Exploring national parks and hiking.

Daniel Lobell: (36:42)
That sounds really fun.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (36:44)
I love theater. When I’m not practicing medicine, I produce musicals on Broadway.

Daniel Lobell: (36:51)
Really?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (36:51)
In my spare time. Really.

Daniel Lobell: (36:54)
That’s incredible. I can’t even understand how that’s humanly possible to be doing medicine and teaching medicine and having a family and producing musicals on Broadway, but that’s incredibly inspiring that you’re able to do all that stuff. And what musicals have you produced?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (37:12)
So I was part of the team that produced Tuck Everlasting. That was the first project that I did. Once on this Island, one that I’m very, very proud of. We just worked on, there was a group of physicians kind of working together for the Princess Diana musical. Just little projects here and there.

Daniel Lobell: (37:39)
Wow. So what does it entail to produce a Broadway musical? I’m…

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (37:43)
So my part in it is very, very small. There’s big producers and partners who kind of put in all the work. I’ll just help with the financing. That’s my part in it, but I like to see the show and learn about it and just, how it all works.

Daniel Lobell: (38:04)
It’s pretty amazing. Wow. That’s so cool. What were your favorite musicals growing up?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (38:12)
Well, when I was little, Cats. I loved Cats. I made my parents take me to see it a bunch of times…

Daniel Lobell: (38:19)
From Florida, you guys went to the Winter Garden Theater, or did you wait for it to come to Florida?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (38:24)
Well, Toronto has a whole theater scene.

Daniel Lobell: (38:27)
Oh, I forgot, Toronto. You were in Toronto when you were younger.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (38:30)
Yeah. Toronto has an amazing theater scene with great musicals. And so, we had our own winter garden, actually we had, I think it was called the Elgin Theater where Cats was. But we had a number of theaters, so we would get shows for quite extensive runs and I could see them over and over. I love Le Mis. I love Phantom of the Opera. All of them.

Daniel Lobell: (38:55)
Le Mis is definitely one of my favorites. Did you see the new Steven Spielberg West Side Story? And what did you think if you did?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (39:03)
[Joanna laughs] I actually have not seen it yet, because when it was in the theaters, was kind of the Omicron third, and so I skipped it, but I’m waiting for the release on Disney+ so that I can watch it.

Daniel Lobell: (39:16)
I think March 2nd is when it comes to Disney+.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (39:18)
I’m ready.

Daniel Lobell: (39:20)
It was fantastic. I’m looking forward to watching it again. I thought…

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (39:24)
Yeah, that’s what I heard. I’m excited to see it.

Daniel Lobell: (39:26)
We saw it in IMAX theater here in Los Angeles, my wife and I, and I’d never actually seen the original, so that was the first West Side Story I was ever exposed to. Then I went back and watched the original one and I’m a fan, I’m an instant fan, but the new one is definitely visually spectacular.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (39:47)
Very cool.

Daniel Lobell: (39:49)
Well, we are rounding off the interview here and I really appreciate the time that you’ve given me. I ask all the doctors the same question at the end, and I’m gonna ask you as well. What do you personally do to stay healthy?

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (40:03)
I exercise. I’m a big believer that you have to be active. So I ride my Peloton. During the pandemic, we put a gym in our house, so I have a gym where I can do all my workouts and my yoga, everything in there. And I like going for walks, and I just think, trying to eat as healthy as I can. Doesn’t mean I don’t indulge and enjoy a great dessert or a glass of wine, but, just trying to keep myself moving and eat lots of different healthy things and manage my stress.

Daniel Lobell: (40:45)
On the topic of nutrition, is there a certain diet that you subscribe to or that you recommend to patients, like a Mediterranean or a vegan or any type of thing specifically that you’ve found to be…

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (40:58)
I mean, for people who are trying to lose weight, there’s some data that the Mediterranean diet can be helpful. Plant-based diets have pretty good data that they’re very healthy. So it’s a little bit about talking to my patients about their preferences. We have a physician in my practice who specializes in culinary medicine. So she’s incredibly helpful at really getting into the weeds with our patients about what they’re eating and how to eat better. And she’ll work with our patients who have problems with their cholesterol or have diabetes and she’ll help them with changes and we’ll see big swings and big improvements in their numbers.

Daniel Lobell: (41:41)
All right. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Drowos. I really, really appreciate it. I appreciate talking to you. You may be the first DO that we’ve had on the show, to my knowledge.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (41:51)
I doubt it. I doubt it. I’m probably the first to sort of highlight it. And…

Daniel Lobell: (41:56)
The first to admit it.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (41:57)
…talk about it…

Daniel Lobell: (41:59)
[Daniel laughs] Not that it’s something to be ashamed of, but you’re the first one who said it.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (42:03)
Yeah. Cause it’s just a part of my practice. It’s very much a part of who I am.

Daniel Lobell: (42:09)
Thank you very much. And I really enjoyed talking to you. Have a great rest of your day.

Dr. Joanna Drowos: (42:14)
Yeah, my pleasure. You as well, take care.

Daniel Lobell: (42:19)
This podcast or any written material derived from its transcripts represents the opinions of the medical professional being interviewed. The content here is for informational purposes only and should not be taken as medical advice. Since every person is unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any personal or specific needs.